SWA: Hi Steve. You are one of the most fondly remembered Tranmere players from back in the 1970’s, spending seven years at the club. Was training a lot different in your day?

Very much so. In pre-season, once a fortnight or so we’d go to Storeton woods. We used to gather round a big ditch, a group on each side, and there were two ropes hanging down. We had to run, grab the rope, then try and knock the other guy off.

SWA: Sounds technical! Current manager Les Parry is regarded as a top physio, in an era where almost any injury can be recovered from. How different where things when you were playing?

It was tough. We had a physio called Alec Mclelland. Whenever we’d go for an x-ray he’d say ‘whatever you do, don’t come back with your leg in plaster.’ One time I ended up playing for three weeks with a broken kneecap. I’d felt a crunch in a coming together on the field, and at half time felt it stiffen up and had to come off. Alec had a look at it and had me running the next day. Eventually I said to Moorsey, ‘I’m going to have to check this out.’ When I saw the x-ray, I had a massive crack in it. Barrie (Mitchell) once went for a medical, in France I think it was, and found out he had 31 fractures in his foot. Another time John James, and he was a strong fella, broke his leg, and Mclelland tried to push it back together. Poor bloke was in agony!

SWA: What were the funniest moments you can remember?

We used to do this thing in training, leapfrogging, where we’d all line up and leapfrog over each other one after another. This young lad Stevie Whittingham was in his first year as apprentice, and was doing it for the first time. Well Ronnie used to do this thing where as you leapfrog him he pushes up and throws you off. So Stevie gets to Ronnie and gets thrown up in the air. Anyway, later on, it’s Moorseys turn to do the leapfrog, and when he gets to Stevie he pushes up and does the same thing back to him, and Ronnie goes flying. Everyone’s falling about laughing, when Ronnie gets up, walks over and knocks poor young Stevie out. Couldn’t be getting had off like that by an apprentice!

SWA: Who was your favourite manager?

Kingy was the best manager for me. Dave McCay was good too. Kingy was a good bloke, he looked after me. I needed people to do the dirty work for me, win the ball back and let me play. Sometimes wingers can look lazy when they’re being well marked or not getting on the ball as it’s our job to stay wide. Kingy understood that.

SWA: What was your favourite Kingy-ism?

I remember he used to say ‘We’re like little squirrels. We get these little acorns, and we hide them away.’ I think he was talking about getting points on the board!

SWA: You still go to a lot of matches. How do the club treat ex-players?

It’s actually changed a lot depending on the manager. Ray (Mathias) was the one who started getting the ex-players back involved. He would give you a few drinks on the house if you were struggling for work, he looked after us. I rang up once under Aldo to get tickets for a game, and they told me there was no chance of a free ticket, I’d have to pay. I thought Ray was treated harshly by the club, we played some good football when he was in charge.

SWA: What has changed most about football since your day?

You know what, smoking was a big thing then. I used to smoke 25 ciggies a day, going an hour without one was hard. I used to light up at half time if I could! We just didn’t know about the dangers of smoking then. Players are a lot fitter now.

SWA: You scored 47 goals for Rovers. What was the best you ever scored?

Probably at Port Vale in ’79. First game of the season, and I’d just had a bereavement in the family. I remember beating a few players and hitting a left foot screamer. I only ever got one hattrick in my career, against Workington in 1975, the season we got promoted. Should have had a few more really but never mind!

SWA: You started your career at Liverpool, and while at Tranmere played alongside future internationals. Who were the best players you played with?

At Tranmere, Bobby was the best player I played with. Coppy (Steve Coppell) was terrific as well. He wasn’t a natural player in the sense that he used to always do the same thing- get up to the full back, throw a dummy in and get to the byline then whip a cross in. He had a great turn of pace.

Mark Palios was a dead clever fella. Wasn’t a clever player, but he was a great man marker. We used to say he was a great player til he got on the ball, though he did have an eye for goal too.

At Swindon, Don Rogers was a great player. He played down the left and I was on the right. And at Liverpool, Emelyn Hughes and Ray Clemence were a class above for me.

SWA: What have you been up to since leaving football?

I got into gardening, of all things. Weed killing and spraying, that sort of thing. I couldn’t have gone into coaching or managing, it wasn’t for me.

SWA: We spoke to Barrie Mitchell recently, and he mentioned that you both had spells in America. In fact, you were at Chicago Sting alongside former Rover Bobby Tynan in the mid 1970’s. What was that like?

It was great. I liked Chicago – better money, nice apartments, the lot. It was like being on an extended holiday. I was playing against the likes of Pele, Eusebio. They even took us to Miami for a week as a bit of a break. It was a different world over there. The home ground was astroturf too, which was an experience.

SWA: Thanks for talking to us Pep, it’s been a pleasure.

SWA: Hi Barrie. First question then- Tranmere was your first club outside of Scotland. How did the move come about?

Well, I actually should have gone to Liverpool really. A few years earlier, when I was at Dunfermline, Shankly offered 70k for me. They denied the offer had come in of course, but it happened- the chairman wanted 100k though so turned it down.
As always happens, I ended up going to Aberdeen for only 40k in the end.

But I’d lost a yard of pace after a back injury, and never really got started at Aberdeen. Our manager at the time got talking to Yeatsy, think it was at a Preston game, Dave Russell might have been involved too.

I ended up coming down for a chat, so I turned up with an overnight bag. Funny thing was they asked me to stay on for a week, so there’s me sat there with one change of clothes and one pair of pants, I had to go and buy a load of new stuff!

They ended up offering me a contract- everyone at Tranmere was on a flat 35 a week at that time, but I managed to get 60 a week. I was only 27 so I think it was a pretty good deal for both parties.

SWA: The season you were relegated, Yeats was sacked and John King promoted to manager. He couldn’t keep Rovers up, but next season you were promoted. King is a legend in many fans eyes. What were your impressions of the man?

I liked him as a person. But I’ll be honest with you, when he used to tell those stories, I don’t know… ‘We’re going to get in this boat’ he’d say. ‘But if the going gets tough, we’re going to have to grab these oars…’ I just used to think ‘what is he on about!’ I didn’t have time for all of that.

There wasn’t much need for management and tactics then anyway. A group of us played nearly every game that promotion season. I only missed two games and that was only because my registration didn’t come back in time. We knew each other’s game so well. I think it’s a bit unfair managers these days getting the sack for losing the dressing room and the like.

SWA: Two other players in that squad were former Rovers’ managers Ray Mathias and Ronnie Moore. Could you have seen either of them going on to manage the club back when you were playing together?

Yeah I guess so. In hindsight I think Ray was always the more likely, leadership-wise. He was a quiet fella, quite a gentleman. Ronnie was always more boisterous! I’d have thought Ray would have made a better manager, he was calm and collected.

SWA: You attended the recent 125 year celebrations. What was that like?

It was great, they really looked after us. There weren’t that many people from my time there actually- quite a few were a bit older than me. Dickie (Johnson) was there, and Steve (Peplow) and Bobby (Tynan).

They laid on a buffet upstairs, then we had the pitch walkaround. We all watched the match and then there was more food laid on afterwards. It was really nice. Good to catch up with some familiar faces.

SWA: You played with some greats in your time. Who were the best players you played with and against?

Now you’re asking. The best player I played with… probably a lad called Alex Edwards, wide right player. He had everything- dribbling, crossing. At Rovers, probably Tynan and Pep.

Against, I’d say Pele, Georgie Best- I played against him while at Aberdeen and we beat United 4-1, make sure you print that! I think I scored a diving header in that game. Eusebio too, of course. Hardest player I ever came up against was a big centre half at Celtic called George O’Neill, he was a tough fella.

SWA: What was the best goal you scored for Rovers?

Oh, it was against Torquay at the cowshed end. I’ll never forget Pep’s face. He’d just gone off and was sitting on the bench. We used to have this corner routine- Bobby would feint a run to the near post- he was a great header of the ball- and then would run back to the centre of the goal, and I’d drive the ball in to him. Well, this time, the centre half gets up and bam! The ball comes straight back to me.

Quick as a flash, I hit it back in and it screams into the top corner off the outside of my right foot. I looked straight over at Pep and just said, ‘how bout that eh?’ You should have seen him, haha.

Possibly the greatest goal ever seen at Tranmere. People used to ask me, did you mean it? I’d say course I meant it. Did I hell, complete fluke! We won that game 7-1, I scored another in that game too, but that one was all people ever asked me about.

SWA: The truth’s out there now Barrie! What were the funniest moments you remember?

There were some funny times. I used to love training, but some of the lads hated it. Peplow was a terrible trainer. There was a pre-season, and we were getting worked really hard. Anyway, we’re running through these woods, knackered all of us. All of a sudden I turn to Bobby and say ‘Hey, look at him’. And there’s Pep, sitting under a tree smoking a fag. I says ‘what you doing?’ And he just turns to me, shakes his head and says ‘too much for me’.

Another time Kingy’s giving a team talk at half time, and says ‘hang on, where’s Pep?’ And then we notice there’s smoke coming from under the toilet door, he’s only gone off and snuck in a quick fag.

Funniest thing in a game was a time when Pep was contesting a throw in with this fella. Big fella he was. They both grabbed the ball, and the ref come over and signalled it was their ball. It was never their throw in a million years. Well, Pep gets hold of the ball and half volleys it straight at their player, right in the face. I’ve never seen him run so fast!

There was one reporter who wrote a story about me back in Scotland. I’ve still got it here [shows clipping from scrapbook] ‘Mitchell has all the grace and elegance of a frightened penguin’.

I wouldn’t mind but I scored two in that game as well!

SWA: What do you make of the current situation at Rovers?

Well you have to bear in mind we went down to division 4 while I was there, though we got promoted the next year. It’s tricky- how do you get investment into a club? Like I said before, everyone was on the same wage when I played. Wages are much higher now.
SWA: That’s true. Do you think the standard is similar to when you were here?

I don’t think foreign players coming in has made much difference at this level. In our time the Scots coming in was the foreign invasion. Every club had one or two. It’s more of a lifestyle thing. In my day we played football day and night. These days there’s too many distractions, kids spend all there time playing computers. Football was all we had, maybe that makes a difference.

SWA: Speaking of foreign players, you became one yourself when you made the move to Canada to play for Vancouver Whitecaps. How did that come about?

Well in those days, a lot of players had started going to America in the summer to earn a bit of extra money and keep fit for the start of the next season.

I was coming back from a cartilage injury and got a call from Toronto saying they wanted me for the summer. I told Kingy that if he let me go over to Canada I could come back fit as a fiddle.

So I sign for Toronto, and a few days later get a call from Vancouver, saying I was on waivers (transfer list in Canada).

God knows what happened, maybe they signed too many foreigners or something. Anyway they asked me if I’d like to go there, so I thought, yeah why not. It was a much nicer city than Toronto, some good players.

It was a semi pro league, there was me and a dutch fella, and most of the rest of the lads were semi pro’s who worked another job in the day and trained nights.

The first year I won the player of the year award. The second year I went back, they’d got a German manager in who didn’t want me there. If I’d have been a white Pele he wouldn’t have liked me.

So in the end I got on the phone to Pep and Bobby, who were playing over in Chicago, and went to see them for a bit of a holiday!

SWA: Final question then- why did you end up leaving Rovers?

The season my contract finished I played something like 43 out of 46 games. I came back after the summer in Vancouver for contract talks. I said to Kingy, ‘you know that if you don’t give me the same or more I can leave.’ So Kingy asked me where I was going to go, I said Preston.

In the end I came up with a compromise, Kingy liked the contract, I wanted it, but when Kingy went to the directors with it they wouldn’t have it.

I was disappointed I wasn’t going to have another crack at Division 3. These days a lot of players follow the money. But loyalty doesn’t do any harm- theoretically Preston was a bigger club but I wouldn’t have left.

I loved the club, couldn’t believe it. We had a great team with Pep wide right, myself and Bobby in the middle. If I’d have only played ten games the previous season I’d have understood. But these things happen in football.

SWA: Thanks a lot for speaking to us Barrie, some great memories there.

No problem, it’s been a pleasure.

Super White Army